Problem Bird

jdcoop · 08-01-2007, 07:39 AM

I have a 1995 Ford Thunderbird LX.
It has a 3.8L engine.
My problem is when I am driving the car will jerk
hard and you can see the tachometer drop to zero
and then come back up to normal. This will do this
an unnumbered amount of times, and then may die
completely. At this point you cannot get it started
again. The engine will turn over but will not fire.
You can let it set for awhile, and then it will fire
up again. I have not been able to find a pattern to
this problem, it will do it at any time.

yustr · 08-01-2007, 09:03 PM

I'm certainly not a car expert but when was the last time you changed the fuel filter? I had an older Ford that ran very rough at times and changing the filter cured it.

jdcoop · 08-02-2007, 03:07 PM

I have already done that and hasn't made a
difference.
thanks

**Midnight Tech** · 08-02-2007, 05:41 PM

Any check engine light...and has the ignition module been replaced/checked?

rockshox203 · 08-02-2007, 06:16 PM

if it rattles than stalls it could be a pcv valve that needs replacing

jdcoop · 08-02-2007, 07:10 PM

I have tried 2 new and different brand of modules and did not cure it.
I have replaced the pcv valve. No there is no check engine lights on.
I put and ignition coil on too. Have put new fuel filter on. No cure.

dai · 08-02-2007, 07:19 PM

does it have an electric fuel pump as these are the same syptoms as on my daughters car just before it packed up

Bald Eagle · 08-02-2007, 07:42 PM

First thing to do is check to see if you are losing spark or fuel. When it dies and wont restart, pull one of the plug wires off, stick a screwdriver with a good plastic end in the boot, hold it by the handle about a half inch away from a metal part on the engine and have someone crank it over. You should see a good blue spark jump consistently from the screwdrive shaft to the engine. If there is spark, the problem will be fuel delivery. If no spark, move to the wire coming from the coil to the distributor cap. do the same thing with the end you pull out of the distributor. if you now have spark, your problem is in either the distributor cap, rotor or plug wires. if not it gets more complicated. Check for power at the ign. coil when you first turn on the key. If it is there, the main relay is ok.
At this point, I would be looking at the pickup coil in the distributor. they have been known to fail regularly. Several other common problems with these vehicles are a bad ecm ground wire, a single black wire at the neg. battery terminal, the fuel pump relay and the wiring underneath it and the main relay and its wiring. Ford had a lot of problems back then with "green wires" usually at the base of relays or at a junction.
First thing tho is to determine what is not there ie. spark or fuel and proceed from there. hope this helps.

jdcoop · 08-02-2007, 08:52 PM

Yes it does have an electric fuel pump. I have not replaced it yet.
This is good. I have more things I can check for. Thanks Bald eagle,and
dai.

**qldit** · 08-02-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdcoop

I have a 1995 Ford Thunderbird LX.
It has a 3.8L engine.
My problem is when I am driving the car will jerk
hard and you can see the tachometer drop to zero
and then come back up to normal. This will do this
an unnumbered amount of times, and then may die
completely. At this point you cannot get it started
again. The engine will turn over but will not fire.
You can let it set for awhile, and then it will fire
up again. I have not been able to find a pattern to
this problem, it will do it at any time.

Good Afternoon jdcoop, I am not familiar with this vehicle but your description is also in line with a defective engine rotation sensor which is generally mounted on the front of the engine near the fwd drive pulley and senses rotation, which is in turn used to drive the spark system etc.
I have seen one case where actually spraying a cold water hose on this sensor allowed rapid recovery.
Could be worth a try having a look at it and trying that idea.
Although these devices are simple sensors, many also contain electronics that can fail intermittently.

Cheers, qldit.

jdcoop · 08-03-2007, 08:07 AM

[quote=qldit;1012688]Good Afternoon jdcoop, I am not familiar with this vehicle but your description is also in line with a defective engine rotation sensor which is generally mounted on the front of the engine near the fwd drive pulley and senses rotation, which is in turn used to drive the spark system etc.
I have seen one case where actually spraying a cold water hose on this sensor allowed rapid recovery.
Could be worth a try having a look at it and trying that idea.
Although these devices are simple sensors, many also contain electronics that can fail intermittently.

Cheers, qldit.[/QUOTE
Thanks i will try this.

RAF1 · 08-03-2007, 05:21 PM

Another thing you might do it take the cap off of the gas tank and then try restarting the engine--I had this problem some time back and the problem was that the vehicle had built up pressure in the fuel line.

08-01-2007, 07:39 AM	#1 (permalink)
jdcoop Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 OS: 98xp	Problem Bird I have a 1995 Ford Thunderbird LX. It has a 3.8L engine. My problem is when I am driving the car will jerk hard and you can see the tachometer drop to zero and then come back up to normal. This will do this an unnumbered amount of times, and then may die completely. At this point you cannot get it started again. The engine will turn over but will not fire. You can let it set for awhile, and then it will fire up again. I have not been able to find a pattern to this problem, it will do it at any time.

08-01-2007, 09:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
yustr Asst. Manager, The Conversation Pit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut shore Posts: 6,059 OS: XP Pro My System	Re: Problem Bird I'm certainly not a car expert but when was the last time you changed the fuel filter? I had an older Ford that ran very rough at times and changing the filter cured it. __________________ If there are lawyers or politicians involved, logic may be a very poor tool for reaching a conclusion.

08-02-2007, 03:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
jdcoop Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 OS: 98xp	Re: Problem Bird I have already done that and hasn't made a difference. thanks

08-02-2007, 05:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
Midnight Tech Admin/Head GreaseMonkey/Igor's alter ego/Grand Exalted PoohBah Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SC Posts: 2,924 OS: Windows XP Home/Pro SP3/Windows 98SE/Fedora Core 6/RH 7.2 with Autopoint/TAMS II	Re: Problem Bird Any check engine light...and has the ignition module been replaced/checked? __________________ Please post all questions in the appropriate forum. Questions sent by email or PM will not be answered. Sharing my life...with my Imzadi! Interested in Trek gaming? Check out the Dynaverse! Proud supporter of the Carolinas Aviation Museum. If we have helped you in any way, please donate to keep TSF up and running!

08-02-2007, 06:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
rockshox203 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 54 OS: w2k and xubuntu	Re: Problem Bird if it rattles than stalls it could be a pcv valve that needs replacing

08-02-2007, 07:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
jdcoop Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 OS: 98xp	Re: Problem Bird I have tried 2 new and different brand of modules and did not cure it. I have replaced the pcv valve. No there is no check engine lights on. I put and ignition coil on too. Have put new fuel filter on. No cure.

08-02-2007, 07:19 PM	#7 (permalink)
dai Manager, Hardware Forums Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: west australia Posts: 56,730 OS: win 7 32x 64x rtm	Re: Problem Bird does it have an electric fuel pump as these are the same syptoms as on my daughters car just before it packed up __________________

08-02-2007, 07:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
Bald Eagle Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ontario Can. Posts: 37 OS: winXP sp2	Re: Problem Bird First thing to do is check to see if you are losing spark or fuel. When it dies and wont restart, pull one of the plug wires off, stick a screwdriver with a good plastic end in the boot, hold it by the handle about a half inch away from a metal part on the engine and have someone crank it over. You should see a good blue spark jump consistently from the screwdrive shaft to the engine. If there is spark, the problem will be fuel delivery. If no spark, move to the wire coming from the coil to the distributor cap. do the same thing with the end you pull out of the distributor. if you now have spark, your problem is in either the distributor cap, rotor or plug wires. if not it gets more complicated. Check for power at the ign. coil when you first turn on the key. If it is there, the main relay is ok. At this point, I would be looking at the pickup coil in the distributor. they have been known to fail regularly. Several other common problems with these vehicles are a bad ecm ground wire, a single black wire at the neg. battery terminal, the fuel pump relay and the wiring underneath it and the main relay and its wiring. Ford had a lot of problems back then with "green wires" usually at the base of relays or at a junction. First thing tho is to determine what is not there ie. spark or fuel and proceed from there. hope this helps. Last edited by Bald Eagle; 08-02-2007 at 07:45 PM.

08-02-2007, 08:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
jdcoop Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 OS: 98xp	Re: Problem Bird Yes it does have an electric fuel pump. I have not replaced it yet. This is good. I have more things I can check for. Thanks Bald eagle,and dai.

08-03-2007, 08:07 AM	#11 (permalink)
jdcoop Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 OS: 98xp	Re: Problem Bird [quote=qldit;1012688]Good Afternoon jdcoop, I am not familiar with this vehicle but your description is also in line with a defective engine rotation sensor which is generally mounted on the front of the engine near the fwd drive pulley and senses rotation, which is in turn used to drive the spark system etc. I have seen one case where actually spraying a cold water hose on this sensor allowed rapid recovery. Could be worth a try having a look at it and trying that idea. Although these devices are simple sensors, many also contain electronics that can fail intermittently. Cheers, qldit.[/QUOTE Thanks i will try this.

08-03-2007, 05:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
RAF1 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10 OS: XP	Re: Problem Bird Another thing you might do it take the cap off of the gas tank and then try restarting the engine--I had this problem some time back and the problem was that the vehicle had built up pressure in the fuel line.