If it says Libby, Libby, Libby...

[bry623]

Down goes Scooter.

Or as I am going to call him, the fall guy. They got him indicted. Rove may go, but that would be all in the Bush admin. Fall guy, martyr.

But what we learned from the 42nd president that it is ok to lie to a grand jury, depending on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. Either way, I think Libby will get a pardon in Jan. 09 much like Clinton gave out pardons in Jan of 01.

[40sondacurb]

affairs of state hold a little more serious than affairs of... affairs.


I wonder why this isn't as big as the Lewinsky thing? Maybe because the media is so liberal.


they're saying this may have the same effect on the 2006 elections as the Iran-Contra thing did for Regan.

[superflysmith]

So after two years their is still no indictment on the original charge.

[40sondacurb]

Originally Posted by superflysmith

So after two years their is still no indictment on the original charge.

well the sources were just barely given up in the summer and fall of this year. What's curious it that Libby has already been indited while rove who was given up much earlyer has not.

[linderman]

the country has always been about frying the little fish / because the big fish has the power and the money to get away !!

Whats with all the Carl Rove and Scooter Libby / they are just the fall guys for the big fish / and the whole thing is about punishing and discrediting Wilson because he wanted to blow the whistle on the bull crap "evidence" of wepaons of mass destruction / the center pieve for invading Iraq ?????

The president that took us to war / for what reason ????? and he didnt know he reason was bull crap then why flame Wilson ?????

The real person who should be impeached is the President and his puppets / what is the reason we are still in Iraq / no weapons / ohhhh yeah to win the hearts and minds of the poor people ????? like the ones we abandoned in Haiti, guatamala, el salvador, bosnia, Somalia how about all those "poor" people they are not free >>>> dont they need a consititution too ????? ohhhhh too bad they dont have any oil to steal for those Texas refineries !!

give me a break / chasing and torturing the minnows of our broken goverment while the big fish get fatter and fatter

[Tumbleweed36]

Originally Posted by superflysmith

So after two years their is still no indictment on the original charge.

Hi,

Uh, err, um, could it be because there was no basis for an indictment on the original charge except liberal media singing the song day in and day out, year in and year out, how Rove was guilty of violating a federal law of outing a CIA agent???????? I know, get BUSH by getting ROVE, but sorry liberal media, it did not work again this time.

[40sondacurb]

Why didn't Libby and rove get handled by a biased prosecutor, like a democrat ken star?

but sorry liberal media, it did not work again this time.

what was the first time?

[yustr]

I guess lying is so accepted by this administration and the republican congress that they forget that Clinton was impeached for exactly the same thing that Libby is accused of:

On August 17, 1998, William Jefferson Clinton swore to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth before a Federal grand jury of the United States. Contrary to that oath, William Jefferson Clinton willfully provided perjurious, false and misleading testimony to the grand jury...

Remember playing hide the cigar with an intern is not a crime. The House of Representatives thought lying to a federal grand jury about it was serious enough to warrant impeachment.

But somehow its the liberal press that is making this a case. What about Libby (and probably Rove) lying? How little they must value of the rule of law.

[Tumbleweed36]

Hi,

What can I say that explains this any better than this from the liberal media called the NY Times: (maybe there is hope for that paper yet)

BROOKS: WHY ARE DEMS SO OVERHEATED?
Sat Oct 29 2005 17:15:12 ET

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald did not find evidence to prove that there was a "broad conspiracy to out a covert agent for political gain. He did not find evidence of wide-ranging criminal behavior. He did not even indict the media's ordained villain, Karl Rove," writes David Brooks in Sunday's NY TIMES.

"Leading Democratic politicians filled the air with grand conspiracy theories that would be at home in the John Birch Society."

"Why are these people so compulsively overheated?.. Why do they have to slather on wild, unsupported charges that do little more than make them look unhinged?

Brooks quotes from an essay written 40 years ago by Richard Hofstadter called "The Paranoid Style in American Politics."

Hofstadter argued that sometimes people who are dispossessed, who feel their country has been taken away from them and their kind, develop an angry, suspicious and conspiratorial frame of mind. It is never enough to believe their opponents have committed honest mistakes or have legitimate purposes; they insist on believing in malicious conspiracies.

"The paranoid spokesman," Hofstadter wrote, "sees the fate of conspiracy in apocalyptic terms -- he traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, whole political orders, whole systems of human values. He is always manning the barricades of civilization." Because his opponents are so evil, the conspiracy monger is never content with anything but their total destruction."

Brooks summarizes: "So some Democrats were not content with Libby's indictment, but had to stretch, distort and exaggerate. The tragic thing is that at the exact moment when the Republican Party is staggering under the weight of its own mistakes, the Democratic Party's loudest voices are in the grip of passions that render them untrustworthy."

Need one say more?

[linderman]

I guess it's just a matter of what are you willing to accept from our goverment ???? I think we deserve more integrity, why is Bill Frist still lose when Martha Stewart was in camp Cup Cake for the same thing ????????

justice is a commodity / bought and sold by those with the power and the money ?????


Tumble >>>> why are we in Iraq ???????????????????? what is our goal ????

I find it deplorable that we invaded another country / got 2,000 servicement killed / plunged our economy in devastation and for what purpose ??? I personally backed the invasion based on the "evidence" we were shown / now I would like some sort of explanation of how and why that happened / you dont invade another country on a hunch. And anyone who speaks out agains the bush admin gets squashed ???
his admin is a go along or get squashed organization / bobble heads all agreeing

I think we deserve more / Afganistan >>>> you betcha that was a worthy call !!

We will ever see a president with integrity again ????? Reagan looked like a god compared to the ***** clinton & the thief bush

[Tumbleweed36]

Originally Posted by linderman

I guess it's just a matter of what are you willing to accept from our goverment ???? I think we deserve more integrity, why is Bill Frist still lose when Martha Stewart was in camp Cup Cake for the same thing ????????

I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that Martha was convicted by a jury of her peers and was found guilty and Mr. Frist was not to the best of my knowledge.

Are you telling me that Frist has been tried by a jury of his peers and no one knows about it. If you know something no one else does, then bring it forward so we can get rid of the guy. It just seems that we are so quick to convict someone who has not been proven guilty.

I would not want anyone to do that to me or would not want them to do that to you, so Mr. Frist deserves the same justice and we need to wait and see. If he is guilty as Martha was, then I firmly believe he should do jail time, I can agree with you on that one. I don't care who he is, or what party he belongs to, or how rich he is, the law is the law. He must be held to the same standard that linderman would be.

Originally Posted by linderman

justice is a commodity / bought and sold by those with the power and the money ?????

I agree with you to some degree. However, there aren't many who are as rich as Martha Steward was and she did the time. I just think totally, the courts are out of control in many ways so justice as we know it isn't always equal and it certainly should be the same for all. Power and money do talk and we both know that. If the courts were not out of control (and attorneys in general), then this might not be the case.

Originally Posted by linderman

Tumble >>>> why are we in Iraq ???????????????????? what is our goal ???? I find it deplorable that we invaded another country / got 2,000 servicement killed / plunged our economy in devastation and for what purpose ??? I personally backed the invasion based on the evidence.

Well, we are in Iraq because President Cllinton, President Bush, Secretary of State Powell, British Prime Minister Blair, Congress of the United States, and everyone else in the world was given bad information by the CIA. The CIA misled everyone for the past ten years on this one and that is sad. It is a mess and we both know that. I also find the total situation deplorable.

Our goal is to get out as soon as possible and not have a bloodbath by withdrawing before the Iraqi military is able to ensure order in that country and not have a civil war. When will that be? I don't know and certainly wish it could be next week or so, but that is not practical. If we say it is next week, we both know the insurgents will simply wait until we withdraw and then kill hundreds of thousands like they did before Saddam was gone.

Bush made a bad mistake in my opinion. No, I am not talking about the invasion which we all (even you) thought was justified, but in not cleaning house at the CIA when he found out that he had received faulty information. I fault him for that. He should have fired everone who had anything to do with information that was that corrupted.

Originally Posted by linderman

We will ever see a president with integrity again ????? Reagan looked like a god compared to the ***** clinton & the thief bush

I just wondered where the comment came from about the "thief Bush"? What data or information did you base that on? Please share that information with us so we know more about President Bush.

I sure do hope we see another great one, but there is no way to tell. Great presidents are few and far between and we both know that neither Clinton or Bush fit into that category with the information that we have at the present time. I don't think either one are were/are great and I also think history will bear me out as making a true assessment from what they both have done.

Hey linderman, hope you have a great day!

[bruiser]

Our economy is devasted? Where did you get that info? Despite the hurricanes, the 3rd quarter GDP grew at a good rate.

[linderman]

You think the economy is doing well ?????? wow

I have never seen such an overall corporate downsizing as I have seen in the last two years !! Ayerst labs is a huge enployer in our area and they are leaving in 2008 GP mills is flat on their *** they are going down the tubes / they have been closing down whole machine lines for the last two years as well (airlines are going bankrupt) car manufacturer's are giving cars away trying to stay afloat ~~ how long can they do that ???/ insurance rates are out of control as well as court lawsuits / when is the goverment going to overhaul this crazy crap ???? a woman spills hot coffee in her lap and gets millions ?????? who pulls into a resteraunt and orders cold coffee ?????? who needs to read the cup to determine the contents are hot ??????? Where do you think the money comes from for those kind of lawsuits >>>> your insurance rates my friend !! either directly or indirectly

as far as Bush and thief / are you not aware of the depth of which the Bush family is invested in oil ?????? How about Dick Cheney and Haliburton / do you really think Cheney has no more involvement with Haliburton ???? the sole company to get contracts without bidding and STILL doing it ????? maybe at the start of the war there wasnt time to bid on procurement >>> but now ????

Have you seen the figures for the debt the country is currently racking up ?? how can an economy do well and carry a debt load like that ??? all previous efforts to get the debt under control have been reveresed and squandered.

Our contruction compnay has performed numerous goverment projects spanning the course of 20 years / never have I ever seen the state and local goverment spend so little on repairs and maintenance as they did this year and last year / volume of dollars spent on contruction projects and building maintenance has almost ceased to exist. the goverment is practically broke.

As far as Bill Friest goes / you're right !! innocent until proven guilty >> but do you really they will dig as deep on him as they have with others ??? I wish a fraction of the resources $$$$ were spent getting to the bottom of the coerced "evidence" used for Iraq that was used to catch clinton with his intern!!

oh well / we are not about to solve this nations problems from within here / and our goverment is never going to "fix" whats broken as long as the people in goverment benefit from it being broken $$$$$$

The failed supreme court nomination was a classic example of this admin / experience and suitability means nothing when a close colleague wants a job for life !!

I think it would have been damn interesting to see John McCain in there / I firmly believe he has alot more integrity than our current president ?????

Tumble and others / I enjoy your point of view very much and respect your convictions as much as I do my own!!

regards

joe

[bruiser]

Check the numbers on the economy. It's doing better than you think.

BTW, ever hear of The Shaw Group? They got one of those no bid contracts for rebuilding the Gulf area. It just turns out it's run by the guy who's the head of the Louisiana Democrat party. But, you don't hear that in the media, do you? Wonder why?

[linderman]

Generally speaking the hurricane clean up & re-construction contracts are already in place a year before the hurricane hits. I know this because we bid on portions of them in Florida but were unsuccessful in getting them as our price was higher than the low bidder.

but regardless / I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican / I am a supporter of whom ever can get the job done with the least carnage as his legacy.

My personal opinion is pure dems are too far left and republicans are too far to the right (the conservatives jerk that party too far into the stone age

and the others arent entrenched into the "system $$$$$" deep enough to be effective

[bry623]

I love it when I start a heated thread. Yustr is right, whether you lie to a grand jury about what you did in a federal building ( I think we all own the White House) or about a CIA agent, it is a crime.

Nobody high enough or rich enough will ever be indicted or impeached (especially when his part controls both houses). Remember Reagan? His standard response was "I don't recall." He never got indicted and was voted the greatest American. But 40s makes a good point, the 06 midterms will be a great test of the populace's view on politics since the 04 mandate.

Special prosecutor: Why is Fitzgerald not vilified like Starr? Another 40s point... the media. No liberal media source is going to attack the prosecutor who is investigating their enemies. Also, the democrats defending Clinton called Starr into account on his worthiness to investigate Whitewater. The republicans aren't doing this. Self respect means more than self preservation.

[yustr]

Originally Posted by bry623

Self respect means more than self preservation.

In Washington? The witness may wish to revise his answer.