file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem

Jim OHaver · 06-22-2008, 08:17 PM

The title pretty much says it all. I have an antique PC-AT (286) with a lot of files on its hard drive. The floppy drives are dead. I want to get the files off the HD. I have a null modem adaptor (25-pin) but I can't get the two machines (the other is W98 with Hyperterm running) to talk or connect. Problem could be anywhere, since it has been years since I've done this, and don't exactly remember how. I believe I have the software set correctly, but.... Any help would be appreciated. JGO

**wmorri** · 06-23-2008, 10:27 AM

Have you thought about just taking out the hdd, and then connecting it to your other computer, then just copying the files from one to the other?

Cheers!

Jim OHaver · 06-23-2008, 04:41 PM

Well, yes, sort of. I wouldn't have any problem with the mechanical side of things. That is, I can wield a screwdriver and such. Assuming the cables match up and the slot is compatible, then I could do that. But I don't know what to do with it (or what to expect) when I boot up the W98. Will it simply "see" the 'new' HD as new hardware and show it available as Drive D:? Or would I have to do something software-wise to make it possible to read/write from/to it. Frankly, I wouldn't mind having the extra HD space available, too. But I don't know how to reconfigure the W98 to allow it/make it work. And the old HD does have an OS on it, and am afraid I will mess something up on the W98 machine. Since the latter questions are beyond my ken, I was hesitant to go marching off into uncharted territory. I would sure be willing to do it that way if it's a no-brainer process.

The nullmodem bit is/was familiar, so I tried that first. But I don't give a damn about which way I go.
JGO

**wmorri** · 06-23-2008, 09:34 PM

When you connect your other hdd to your current computer, you should be able to see it as drive D or something like that. As far as I know you won't have to do anthing to the OS.

As for having another OS on the old hdd, that shouldn't be a problem, as long as you keep the hdd in the computer as the master, and set the new hdd as a slave.

If you have any other problems with it just let us know and we can help you the best we can.

Cheers!

**af3** · 06-24-2008, 08:40 AM

You MAY have to change the jumper settings from "MASTER" to "SLAVE" on the hard drive from the i286 PC, but if it is set to "CMOS SELECT" it should be able to automatically assume the role of master hard disk.

In some cases both drives will fight to be the master resulting in a computer that will not boot without intevention. In other cases, the newly introduced hard disk will boot, but you should still be able to see the other hard drive in the operating system and be able to do a file transfer.

I miss MS-DOS.

Jim OHaver · 06-25-2008, 01:53 PM

Well, I will give it a go, and see what happens. I've got a few things on my plate, so won't get to it for a few days, but I will let you know one way or the other.

Thanks for your help. (This website is a huge asset; I never find anything helpful on any Help Board)
JGO
ps: you know, I miss the DOS days, too. It sure seemed like a lot easier rememberng command line syntax than it does now to remember on which submenu some setting exists to do what you want....

**wmorri** · 06-25-2008, 07:42 PM

The DOS days where a lot of fun, and that is why I love Linux. I can open terminal, which is cmd in linux, and then just run my whole computer through that if i need to.

Cheers!

Jim OHaver · 06-29-2008, 08:55 PM

Well, I got into the patients today. Not that I really know what I'm doing, but it appears that one of them is a Klingon. None of the plumbing matches, so a HD transplant seems unlikely. I have attached some photos of the guts of the old AT machine and the 'new' W98 machine. I don't see any chance of connectivity here, but I submit the question to you geniuses.

Any more thoughts on the null modem lashup?

JGO

Jim OHaver · 06-29-2008, 09:02 PM

... the other photo.

I also could not find anything that looked like a jumper on the AT's HD.
JGO

**af3** · 06-30-2008, 07:03 AM

I am not sure why you attached a picture of a PSU and motherboard in reference to the hard drive...

This is what you should be looking for:

You need a ribbon cable with two connectors:

Maybe this will help too:

The drive you want to start Windows from should be set to "Master" and the drive you need to recover data from should be set to "Slave"

Sorry if it seems like I am talking down to you but I am not sure what you do and don't know so I am showing you with images...

Jim OHaver · 06-30-2008, 06:48 PM

You can't possibly give too much information to the ignorant. I posted the pictures I did to show that mismatch bewteen connectors. I don't see how the AT HD can be connected to the W98. I will look again and maybe post some more (useless) photos. At least know I know where to look for hte jumper to set from master to slave.
JGO

**af3** · 07-01-2008, 07:01 AM

I could not see a missmatch.

IDE connectors have not changed for quite some time. Most recently, hard drives have switched to SATA cables that look like this:

Jim OHaver · 08-09-2008, 12:42 PM

Okay, I'm back. I have pulled the HD from the AT carcass. Pic of label attached, for whatever this is worth.

I have confirmed that the ribbon connector on the W98 machine does in fact mate to the AT HD.

I have confirmed that the power connector in the W98 machine does in fact mate to the AT HD.

I found the jumper location. I assume that "MA" means MAster and that "SL" means SLave. I have no idea what "CS" means. See attached pic.

There was/is no jumper present on any location at removal. I can install a jumper to bridge the "SL" pins without any problem, but the absence of any jumper already at "MA" seems to be at odds with posts above as to what I should expect to find. If there was no jumper at MA, what am I doing by installing one at SL?

Assuming these are non-issues, what should I expect the first time I boot up the W98 machine with this "new" HD installed? Will the software recognize the presence of the new hardware and install appropriate drivers? Will I scramble existing setup configuration making it unusable? If it doesn't work as predicted, will removing the "new" HD then restore the W98 to functionality as before? Do I need to bury a frog's head under a rotten stump at the next full moon and dance naked at the equinox before trying this, to assuage the anger of the gods and ensure divine benevolence?

Any/all advice would be welcome.

JGO

**af3** · 08-11-2008, 06:19 AM

You should slip a jumper onto the SL to make sure that the newly introduced drive behaves as a slave.

If the two drives conflict, the system won't boot. Removing the newly introduced drive will make the system boot once again. There can only be one master and one slave per IDE channel, and I think most systems after a certain point had two IDE channels for a maximum of 4 IDE drives.

Good luck.

Jim OHaver · 08-11-2008, 05:29 PM

Okie Dokie. I'll let you know how it works out. IT may be a while for me to get to it again.
JGO

Jim OHaver · 09-02-2008, 10:12 PM

Ahh, sweet success. You guys here are fabulous.

Next crisis: the 3.5" diskette drive is exhibiting odd symptoms. Sometimes it read/writes, sometime it doesn't. Sometimes in the middle of copying a bnuch of files (more file transferring going on), it will give me an error message of "can't read" or some such. If I then attempt to access that drive (A:) again, I get a prompt that says the diskette (which I had just previously accessed) is "not formatted. Do you want to format it now?" I suspect there is some misalignment with the head, or maybe it's just on its way out.

I thought to swap in the 3.5" FDD from the old AT machine, but, when I get inside, I find that the multipin connector on the ribbon cable has ONE pin socket blocked off, and the matching pin on the FDD is missing at that location. The old FDD has all pins intact, so the cable won't plug in. Any thoughts?

And again, thanks for your wisdom on the HD swap. It worked GREAT!

JGO

LoveableJunkie · 11-24-2008, 11:42 AM

If you're no longer using the AT, could you just switch the FDD cables?
I was getting that error for ages, I THINK the problem is that the disk isn't sitting in the drive properly, as if I physically held the disk down with my fingernail, it'd work faultlessly. I just swapped the disk drive round, like you're doing

(Just thought - I THINK that the AT had a 720k disk drive, I remember that the XT's did, so unless you upgraded the AT's disk drive at some point in the past, I'd reccomend against using the AT's disk drive, as you wouldn't be able to read 1.44mb disks)

Jim OHaver · 11-25-2008, 11:47 AM

I looked at swapping the FDD cables, but the AT's cable into the motherboard has a connector different that does the cable going into the W98 board, so I ruled that out.

And yes, I did upgrade the AT's FDD to 1.4mb type.

I was hoping that someone might know that the missing pin is blank because it's not used, such that I could simply break off that pin on the AT's FDD plug it in and have it work. I can't imagine that all the pins are "hot", but I don't know.

But I'll try re-seating the cables and see if that improves things.

Thanks for input.
JGO

06-22-2008, 08:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jim OHaver Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 17 OS: DOS 5.0; W98; Vista	file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem The title pretty much says it all. I have an antique PC-AT (286) with a lot of files on its hard drive. The floppy drives are dead. I want to get the files off the HD. I have a null modem adaptor (25-pin) but I can't get the two machines (the other is W98 with Hyperterm running) to talk or connect. Problem could be anywhere, since it has been years since I've done this, and don't exactly remember how. I believe I have the software set correctly, but.... Any help would be appreciated. JGO

06-23-2008, 10:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
wmorri Moderator/Fedora Amb. Join Date: May 2008 Location: /pm/etc Posts: 2,827 OS: Window 7/Fedora 10 My System	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem Have you thought about just taking out the hdd, and then connecting it to your other computer, then just copying the files from one to the other? Cheers! __________________ Linux Forever!

06-23-2008, 04:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
Jim OHaver Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 17 OS: DOS 5.0; W98; Vista	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem Well, yes, sort of. I wouldn't have any problem with the mechanical side of things. That is, I can wield a screwdriver and such. Assuming the cables match up and the slot is compatible, then I could do that. But I don't know what to do with it (or what to expect) when I boot up the W98. Will it simply "see" the 'new' HD as new hardware and show it available as Drive D:? Or would I have to do something software-wise to make it possible to read/write from/to it. Frankly, I wouldn't mind having the extra HD space available, too. But I don't know how to reconfigure the W98 to allow it/make it work. And the old HD does have an OS on it, and am afraid I will mess something up on the W98 machine. Since the latter questions are beyond my ken, I was hesitant to go marching off into uncharted territory. I would sure be willing to do it that way if it's a no-brainer process. The nullmodem bit is/was familiar, so I tried that first. But I don't give a damn about which way I go. JGO

06-23-2008, 09:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
wmorri Moderator/Fedora Amb. Join Date: May 2008 Location: /pm/etc Posts: 2,827 OS: Window 7/Fedora 10 My System	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem When you connect your other hdd to your current computer, you should be able to see it as drive D or something like that. As far as I know you won't have to do anthing to the OS. As for having another OS on the old hdd, that shouldn't be a problem, as long as you keep the hdd in the computer as the master, and set the new hdd as a slave. If you have any other problems with it just let us know and we can help you the best we can. Cheers! __________________ Linux Forever!

06-24-2008, 08:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
af3 TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USA Posts: 1,173 OS: XP32, the gaming OS. My System	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem You MAY have to change the jumper settings from "MASTER" to "SLAVE" on the hard drive from the i286 PC, but if it is set to "CMOS SELECT" it should be able to automatically assume the role of master hard disk. In some cases both drives will fight to be the master resulting in a computer that will not boot without intevention. In other cases, the newly introduced hard disk will boot, but you should still be able to see the other hard drive in the operating system and be able to do a file transfer. I miss MS-DOS.

06-25-2008, 01:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jim OHaver Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 17 OS: DOS 5.0; W98; Vista	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem Well, I will give it a go, and see what happens. I've got a few things on my plate, so won't get to it for a few days, but I will let you know one way or the other. Thanks for your help. (This website is a huge asset; I never find anything helpful on any Help Board) JGO ps: you know, I miss the DOS days, too. It sure seemed like a lot easier rememberng command line syntax than it does now to remember on which submenu some setting exists to do what you want....

06-25-2008, 07:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
wmorri Moderator/Fedora Amb. Join Date: May 2008 Location: /pm/etc Posts: 2,827 OS: Window 7/Fedora 10 My System	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem The DOS days where a lot of fun, and that is why I love Linux. I can open terminal, which is cmd in linux, and then just run my whole computer through that if i need to. Cheers! __________________ Linux Forever!

06-30-2008, 07:03 AM	#10 (permalink)
af3 TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USA Posts: 1,173 OS: XP32, the gaming OS. My System	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem I am not sure why you attached a picture of a PSU and motherboard in reference to the hard drive... This is what you should be looking for: You need a ribbon cable with two connectors: Maybe this will help too: The drive you want to start Windows from should be set to "Master" and the drive you need to recover data from should be set to "Slave" Sorry if it seems like I am talking down to you but I am not sure what you do and don't know so I am showing you with images...

06-30-2008, 06:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
Jim OHaver Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 17 OS: DOS 5.0; W98; Vista	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem You can't possibly give too much information to the ignorant. I posted the pictures I did to show that mismatch bewteen connectors. I don't see how the AT HD can be connected to the W98. I will look again and maybe post some more (useless) photos. At least know I know where to look for hte jumper to set from master to slave. JGO

07-01-2008, 07:01 AM	#12 (permalink)
af3 TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USA Posts: 1,173 OS: XP32, the gaming OS. My System	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem I could not see a missmatch. IDE connectors have not changed for quite some time. Most recently, hard drives have switched to SATA cables that look like this:

08-11-2008, 06:19 AM	#14 (permalink)
af3 TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USA Posts: 1,173 OS: XP32, the gaming OS. My System	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem You should slip a jumper onto the SL to make sure that the newly introduced drive behaves as a slave. If the two drives conflict, the system won't boot. Removing the newly introduced drive will make the system boot once again. There can only be one master and one slave per IDE channel, and I think most systems after a certain point had two IDE channels for a maximum of 4 IDE drives. Good luck.

08-11-2008, 05:29 PM	#15 (permalink)
Jim OHaver Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 17 OS: DOS 5.0; W98; Vista	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem Okie Dokie. I'll let you know how it works out. IT may be a while for me to get to it again. JGO

09-02-2008, 10:12 PM	#16 (permalink)
Jim OHaver Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 17 OS: DOS 5.0; W98; Vista	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem Ahh, sweet success. You guys here are fabulous. Next crisis: the 3.5" diskette drive is exhibiting odd symptoms. Sometimes it read/writes, sometime it doesn't. Sometimes in the middle of copying a bnuch of files (more file transferring going on), it will give me an error message of "can't read" or some such. If I then attempt to access that drive (A:) again, I get a prompt that says the diskette (which I had just previously accessed) is "not formatted. Do you want to format it now?" I suspect there is some misalignment with the head, or maybe it's just on its way out. I thought to swap in the 3.5" FDD from the old AT machine, but, when I get inside, I find that the multipin connector on the ribbon cable has ONE pin socket blocked off, and the matching pin on the FDD is missing at that location. The old FDD has all pins intact, so the cable won't plug in. Any thoughts? And again, thanks for your wisdom on the HD swap. It worked GREAT! JGO

11-24-2008, 11:42 AM	#17 (permalink)
LoveableJunkie Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: England Posts: 50 OS: WinXP Pro & FLP, 2k Pro, 95a, 98SE & NT4WS DR & PC DOS, OS/2 2 & 4, Linux Mint	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem If you're no longer using the AT, could you just switch the FDD cables? I was getting that error for ages, I THINK the problem is that the disk isn't sitting in the drive properly, as if I physically held the disk down with my fingernail, it'd work faultlessly. I just swapped the disk drive round, like you're doing (Just thought - I THINK that the AT had a 720k disk drive, I remember that the XT's did, so unless you upgraded the AT's disk drive at some point in the past, I'd reccomend against using the AT's disk drive, as you wouldn't be able to read 1.44mb disks) Last edited by LoveableJunkie; 11-24-2008 at 11:46 AM.

11-25-2008, 11:47 AM	#18 (permalink)
Jim OHaver Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 17 OS: DOS 5.0; W98; Vista	Re: file xfr from DOS AT to W98 via null modem I looked at swapping the FDD cables, but the AT's cable into the motherboard has a connector different that does the cable going into the W98 board, so I ruled that out. And yes, I did upgrade the AT's FDD to 1.4mb type. I was hoping that someone might know that the missing pin is blank because it's not used, such that I could simply break off that pin on the AT's FDD plug it in and have it work. I can't imagine that all the pins are "hot", but I don't know. But I'll try re-seating the cables and see if that improves things. Thanks for input. JGO