So... Why do YOU use Linux? What makes it 'superior'?

Sootah · 03-19-2005, 04:17 PM

I've tinkered with Linux time and again over the years, just because I get curious every so often. I keep heading back to Windows.

Now, I don't want this to become a Microsoft bashing thread, mostly because it annoys me. I, even though I'm a hard-core geek, rather like Microsoft. Some of the stuff that gets pulled is annoying, but you have to realize that the product that they produce is aimed at the idiot drooling masses. They have to take an extremely complicated device and make it simple enough for a moron to operate. Not only that, but they have to support every peice of hardware under the sun. All of that considered, I think they do a pretty good job.

As for the Linux question, why do you use it? I liked some of the options, and the fact that you can't really be infected by a virus or spyware or whatnot, but the fact that I had to run Windows anyway always annoyed me. I imagine that nowdays it's not as much of a requirement since they release Linux executables for games and whatnot, but everything is written for Windows so I always found myself booted to it.

Security, I imagine, is another major reason that people run it. And as stated above, you're not going to get a virus or whatnot, but I honesly dont know just how really more secure Linux is. Yes, the design is different and open-source, but the reason Linux doesn't get nailed is because it's not used as much. I can guarentee that if everybody switched suddenly then you'd see all kinds of flaws exploited.

FireFox is a great example of this (yeah, windows based, but it kinda makes my point) It can now be used to infect machines in a back-door fashion. Flaws have been found there. I'm not saying it isn't more secure. I'm not saying Linux isn't more secure than Windows, I'm just saying that I don't think that it would really matter how secure it is if everybody switched. There will ALWAYS be chinks in the armor. With enough people looking, they're bound to be found.

There's my philosiphy on the whole thing. Linux has caught my eye again, and I'll likely try it. I just think that I'll end up running primarily Windows again simply because of the convenience.

Your thoughts?

Skie · 03-19-2005, 04:47 PM

I've been using Linux as my main OS for 3 - 4 years now. Part of it is security. I don't have to worry about if an email I'm looking at is infected or the fact that Outlook tends to automatically execute viruses in emails. Is Linux more secure then Windows? Only time will really tell. Another thing with Linux is that you're encouraged to login and do your stuff as a non privilaged user. So, even if you do run the wrong program and you get infect, the worst thing that will happen is your personal files are lost. (You do make backups, right? You should make them no matter what.) With Windows, you're encouraged to login as an Administrator, as which point, if the wrong program is run, your whole computer is vulnerable.

I'm sure you didn't mean for this thread to turn into a breakdown of all the various ways Windows/Linux can be hacked. So I won't go into it really. No OS is fully secure. Anyone who tells you otherwise is deluded. Real security comes in staying up to date and being educated on what you should/shouldn't do. If the user isn't educated properly, then even the best security measures are usless. The biggest threat (75%) to most company networks is from the users. Only 25% of the threat comes from the outside.

I run my webhosting business off of Linux servers. They use less resources then WIndows since they don't need to run a GUI. It's also a simple matter for me to just login via SSH and administer them. A text based connection uses less bandwidth then a GUI based one such as PC Anywhere or MS's Terminal Services. The cost of having a Linux server is easier on my wallet too.

I can do just about everything on Linux that I can on Windows. I don't play many games in my old age (ok, not that old), but the few that I do play work on Linux. I can even play Quicktime and Windows Media Player movies without emulating.

It took me a little while, but I got used to how Linux works. I always resented Windows for taking away real DOS. I do a lot of work from the Linux command line. Now, whenever I use Windows, I hate it becuase it can't do what I'm used to doing. Also, since I've switched to Gentoo Linux, all I need to do is type in one command and it'll download all updates and install them for me. I just walk away until it's done. Talk about convinience.

I'm not talking about just the OS, but everything that I've installed as long as it was installed through the Portage system.

Another thing that I like is the GUI and command line are seperate. Even if the GUI somehow crashes, the system itself is still stable. I just need to restart the GUI without rebooting. I've also grown to love having virtual desktops so that I can put my email program on one desktop, and my web browser and IM windows on another. I tend to run several programs at once and without multiple desktops, my taskbar would be filled up pretty quickly. I usually use the desktops for specific purposes, such as all work related programs on the first, pleasure related on the second, etc.

I originally tried Linux to see how I liked it and if it was viable for me to use as a replacement. I soon switched to get away from all the viruses that were flying around and to use a more stable OS. This was around the time when Windows 2000 had been on the market only a short time. I was still using Windows 95 and 98 and even had Windows NT at one point. I was using WinNT & Win2k at work and it wasn't 100% stable. I've crashed every OS out there. I can do so on a regular basis if I need to prove my point that it can be crashed.

I've crashed Win2k 5 times in 10 mins and WinXP 3 times in 5 mins. Linux isn't that difficult to crash if you know what you're doing and you're running as root. Linux has been very stable for me and I rarely reboot. The few times I do are when I'm upgrading the kernel or hardware.

I think I'll shut up now.

batty_professor · 03-19-2005, 04:50 PM

You raise a number of good points, a few of which were visited here not too long ago. But I think it's great to keep it fresh. And the term "idiot drooling masses" is priceless. It really hits home. But you missed the zombies that, with mouse pointers outstretched, wander blindly through software life chanting windoooows.....windoooows..... and will just never know any other exists. For some I guess it's just a matter of preference. To me Linux is superior at least for now, from the security aspect. And since i don't game, I have no need for windows at all. Mainly I like Linux because linux is all about choice. If you don't like something about Linux, change it. There are many choices of desktop applications, and apps. for CD playing/burning, lots of different web browsers, and you don't have to buy anti-virus software and the updates or popup blockers on a regular basis. I tend to agree, the writers of malicious code may one day pick on Linux, but if they're to do any actual harm, they'd better pack a big lunch.

Skie · 03-19-2005, 05:00 PM

One more thing that I would like to add. In terms of Linux being more secure, not everyone uses the same programs for email, web browsing, IM, etc. Not everyone has the same kernel installed. Just because someone finds a vulnerability in Mozillas' Thunderbird, Only certain people will be affected. Those that use Pine, Mutt, Evolution, etc will not be affected. Each distro usually includes a kernel with various fixes and patches. Not all kernel level vulnerabilities will affect everyone. With Windows, most people use IE or Outlook. Find 1 vulnerability in either and you suddenly have millions of computers that will fall victum to you. Choice is a good thing for Linux as it helps reduce the overall impact.

**Wilber** · 03-19-2005, 05:26 PM

I use linux at my work too. Mainly for the reasons that Skie put in. It is smaller and less rescource hungry on pc hardware (something I need for handling large amounts of data and numerical models). It is quite stable, and it does exactly what you tell it to do, and nothing else! (though as mentioned before that is mostly with terminal commands, which you will soon learn to love if you choose to use them). It is easy to SSH around networked pc's if you need to. I came around to finding that multi ple desktops are very usefull. It does allow you to manage your work or tasks etc much better than only one.

Programs, like Firefox, open office programs (Word etc), xmms for playing mp3's... pretty much all you want to do is capable with linux. Admittadly I play my games on a windows pc at home, but I prefer to do constructive things on a linux OS. I guess you need to ask yourself what do you want to do with your computer. If you're a gamer, I guess you will want Windows, else Linux is a versatile, down to earth alternative, which after persisting to get a grip of, will be pleasant to use.

Theres my reasons anyway. I suppose they are a little more functional than preference driven but its another side to your question I guess.

Skie · 03-19-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilber

and it does exactly what you tell it to do, and nothing else!

One thing that annoys me is that the computer (OS, program, whatever) always does exactly what I told it to do. Not what I wanted it to do.

:

**Lectraplayer** · 04-01-2005, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skie

One thing that annoys me is that the computer (OS, program, whatever) always does exactly what I told it to do. Not what I wanted it to do.

:

Easy fix, isn't it? Tell it what you want it to do.

Anyway, I use Linux because of these things in no peticular order:

=It doesn't try to take over your computer, unlike Windows XP

=I like the OE better, especially with the multiple desktops
=It doesn't crash, though Windows ME is proving to be supprisingly stable
=The MAN pages sure help when I know what to poke at. Finding what to poke is the hard part. The MAN pages tell you where and how hard to poke.

=It comes with so many "free" and open-source programs that do exactly what you would pay $300 per program to do, and just as well. I can even use files made by those who paid the $300!

=It's free of the legal issues, I can do whatever I want and I'm guaranteed the freedom to do so unless I steal someone else's stuff. ...and even then, I often have permission via the GPL!

All factor in but the programs it comes with, the stability, and the OE are prime.

btw: just throwing an idea out, but has anyone thought of a 3D OE? Maybe KDE-3D? With holograms coming out later on, and with modern computers having the horsepower to do so, maybe somebody should experiment with a 3D operating environment. I'd start except I am not near that level in programming.

brainiac · 04-02-2005, 11:34 AM

I like the fact it will run on older hardware at a reasonably fast pace. I like the fact that for a person with an inquisitive mind, you can dig into how your OS works, conf files and things aren't hidden and most are done in an effort to make them understandable by people like me. It is nice to be able to have multiple machines so a guy can wander from one OS to another and enjoy the benefits of both sides of the fence. I think the grass is a little greener on the "Linux" side of the fence but alas it is mostly an MS world and some of us have to try and stay up with both worlds. As time goes on some things that are done easily in MS are being made easier in Linux, for some that is the thing that holds Linux back from really taking over as an alternative OS. As this improves, daily by the way, MS will price itself out of the picture. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

**LoneWolf071** · 04-02-2005, 02:02 PM

Just to be different... I hate paying $100 for Win O/S when linux is free, also, i'm a coder, so linux is the de facto for that...

Chevy · 04-03-2005, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lectraplayer

btw: just throwing an idea out, but has anyone thought of a 3D OE? Maybe KDE-3D? With holograms coming out later on, and with modern computers having the horsepower to do so, maybe somebody should experiment with a 3D operating environment. I'd start except I am not near that level in programming.

Check this out:

Project Looking Glass

03-19-2005, 04:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sootah Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 27 OS: Win XP Pro	So... Why do YOU use Linux? What makes it 'superior'? I've tinkered with Linux time and again over the years, just because I get curious every so often. I keep heading back to Windows. Now, I don't want this to become a Microsoft bashing thread, mostly because it annoys me. I, even though I'm a hard-core geek, rather like Microsoft. Some of the stuff that gets pulled is annoying, but you have to realize that the product that they produce is aimed at the idiot drooling masses. They have to take an extremely complicated device and make it simple enough for a moron to operate. Not only that, but they have to support every peice of hardware under the sun. All of that considered, I think they do a pretty good job. As for the Linux question, why do you use it? I liked some of the options, and the fact that you can't really be infected by a virus or spyware or whatnot, but the fact that I had to run Windows anyway always annoyed me. I imagine that nowdays it's not as much of a requirement since they release Linux executables for games and whatnot, but everything is written for Windows so I always found myself booted to it. Security, I imagine, is another major reason that people run it. And as stated above, you're not going to get a virus or whatnot, but I honesly dont know just how really more secure Linux is. Yes, the design is different and open-source, but the reason Linux doesn't get nailed is because it's not used as much. I can guarentee that if everybody switched suddenly then you'd see all kinds of flaws exploited. FireFox is a great example of this (yeah, windows based, but it kinda makes my point) It can now be used to infect machines in a back-door fashion. Flaws have been found there. I'm not saying it isn't more secure. I'm not saying Linux isn't more secure than Windows, I'm just saying that I don't think that it would really matter how secure it is if everybody switched. There will ALWAYS be chinks in the armor. With enough people looking, they're bound to be found. There's my philosiphy on the whole thing. Linux has caught my eye again, and I'll likely try it. I just think that I'll end up running primarily Windows again simply because of the convenience. Your thoughts? __________________ TweaksForGeeks - Windows Errors \| Spyware Removal Instructions \| HijackThis Help \| 0x800a0007

03-19-2005, 04:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
Skie Manager, Alternative Comp Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Downers Grove, IL Posts: 1,821 OS: Gentoo Linux, Redhat Enterprise Linux, CentOS My System	I've been using Linux as my main OS for 3 - 4 years now. Part of it is security. I don't have to worry about if an email I'm looking at is infected or the fact that Outlook tends to automatically execute viruses in emails. Is Linux more secure then Windows? Only time will really tell. Another thing with Linux is that you're encouraged to login and do your stuff as a non privilaged user. So, even if you do run the wrong program and you get infect, the worst thing that will happen is your personal files are lost. (You do make backups, right? You should make them no matter what.) With Windows, you're encouraged to login as an Administrator, as which point, if the wrong program is run, your whole computer is vulnerable. I'm sure you didn't mean for this thread to turn into a breakdown of all the various ways Windows/Linux can be hacked. So I won't go into it really. No OS is fully secure. Anyone who tells you otherwise is deluded. Real security comes in staying up to date and being educated on what you should/shouldn't do. If the user isn't educated properly, then even the best security measures are usless. The biggest threat (75%) to most company networks is from the users. Only 25% of the threat comes from the outside. I run my webhosting business off of Linux servers. They use less resources then WIndows since they don't need to run a GUI. It's also a simple matter for me to just login via SSH and administer them. A text based connection uses less bandwidth then a GUI based one such as PC Anywhere or MS's Terminal Services. The cost of having a Linux server is easier on my wallet too. I can do just about everything on Linux that I can on Windows. I don't play many games in my old age (ok, not that old), but the few that I do play work on Linux. I can even play Quicktime and Windows Media Player movies without emulating. It took me a little while, but I got used to how Linux works. I always resented Windows for taking away real DOS. I do a lot of work from the Linux command line. Now, whenever I use Windows, I hate it becuase it can't do what I'm used to doing. Also, since I've switched to Gentoo Linux, all I need to do is type in one command and it'll download all updates and install them for me. I just walk away until it's done. Talk about convinience. I'm not talking about just the OS, but everything that I've installed as long as it was installed through the Portage system. Another thing that I like is the GUI and command line are seperate. Even if the GUI somehow crashes, the system itself is still stable. I just need to restart the GUI without rebooting. I've also grown to love having virtual desktops so that I can put my email program on one desktop, and my web browser and IM windows on another. I tend to run several programs at once and without multiple desktops, my taskbar would be filled up pretty quickly. I usually use the desktops for specific purposes, such as all work related programs on the first, pleasure related on the second, etc. I originally tried Linux to see how I liked it and if it was viable for me to use as a replacement. I soon switched to get away from all the viruses that were flying around and to use a more stable OS. This was around the time when Windows 2000 had been on the market only a short time. I was still using Windows 95 and 98 and even had Windows NT at one point. I was using WinNT & Win2k at work and it wasn't 100% stable. I've crashed every OS out there. I can do so on a regular basis if I need to prove my point that it can be crashed. I've crashed Win2k 5 times in 10 mins and WinXP 3 times in 5 mins. Linux isn't that difficult to crash if you know what you're doing and you're running as root. Linux has been very stable for me and I rarely reboot. The few times I do are when I'm upgrading the kernel or hardware. I think I'll shut up now. __________________

03-19-2005, 04:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
batty_professor Asst. Manager, Alternative Computing Forums Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hooterville Il 45 mi. east of St. Louis mo Posts: 2,609 OS: Fedora Core 5 for now	You raise a number of good points, a few of which were visited here not too long ago. But I think it's great to keep it fresh. And the term "idiot drooling masses" is priceless. It really hits home. But you missed the zombies that, with mouse pointers outstretched, wander blindly through software life chanting windoooows.....windoooows..... and will just never know any other exists. For some I guess it's just a matter of preference. To me Linux is superior at least for now, from the security aspect. And since i don't game, I have no need for windows at all. Mainly I like Linux because linux is all about choice. If you don't like something about Linux, change it. There are many choices of desktop applications, and apps. for CD playing/burning, lots of different web browsers, and you don't have to buy anti-virus software and the updates or popup blockers on a regular basis. I tend to agree, the writers of malicious code may one day pick on Linux, but if they're to do any actual harm, they'd better pack a big lunch. __________________ It's better to know me and not need me than to need me and not know me. B. While users are never under any obligation, if you feel the urge please feel free to visit our donation page. Every little bit helps. And we thank you for your support. Microsoft free Registered Linux user 397458

03-19-2005, 05:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Skie Manager, Alternative Comp Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Downers Grove, IL Posts: 1,821 OS: Gentoo Linux, Redhat Enterprise Linux, CentOS My System	One more thing that I would like to add. In terms of Linux being more secure, not everyone uses the same programs for email, web browsing, IM, etc. Not everyone has the same kernel installed. Just because someone finds a vulnerability in Mozillas' Thunderbird, Only certain people will be affected. Those that use Pine, Mutt, Evolution, etc will not be affected. Each distro usually includes a kernel with various fixes and patches. Not all kernel level vulnerabilities will affect everyone. With Windows, most people use IE or Outlook. Find 1 vulnerability in either and you suddenly have millions of computers that will fall victum to you. Choice is a good thing for Linux as it helps reduce the overall impact. __________________

03-19-2005, 05:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
Wilber I helped the forums. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Liverpool (England) Posts: 83 OS: Win XP Home, Fedora core 3 64 bit	I use linux at my work too. Mainly for the reasons that Skie put in. It is smaller and less rescource hungry on pc hardware (something I need for handling large amounts of data and numerical models). It is quite stable, and it does exactly what you tell it to do, and nothing else! (though as mentioned before that is mostly with terminal commands, which you will soon learn to love if you choose to use them). It is easy to SSH around networked pc's if you need to. I came around to finding that multi ple desktops are very usefull. It does allow you to manage your work or tasks etc much better than only one. Programs, like Firefox, open office programs (Word etc), xmms for playing mp3's... pretty much all you want to do is capable with linux. Admittadly I play my games on a windows pc at home, but I prefer to do constructive things on a linux OS. I guess you need to ask yourself what do you want to do with your computer. If you're a gamer, I guess you will want Windows, else Linux is a versatile, down to earth alternative, which after persisting to get a grip of, will be pleasant to use. Theres my reasons anyway. I suppose they are a little more functional than preference driven but its another side to your question I guess. __________________ "One who is a Samurai must before all things keep constantly in mind, by day and by night... the fact that he has to die" -Daidoji Yuzan 16th century

04-02-2005, 11:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
brainiac Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Central IL Posts: 16 OS: XPPro/Fedora/Mandrake	I like the fact it will run on older hardware at a reasonably fast pace. I like the fact that for a person with an inquisitive mind, you can dig into how your OS works, conf files and things aren't hidden and most are done in an effort to make them understandable by people like me. It is nice to be able to have multiple machines so a guy can wander from one OS to another and enjoy the benefits of both sides of the fence. I think the grass is a little greener on the "Linux" side of the fence but alas it is mostly an MS world and some of us have to try and stay up with both worlds. As time goes on some things that are done easily in MS are being made easier in Linux, for some that is the thing that holds Linux back from really taking over as an alternative OS. As this improves, daily by the way, MS will price itself out of the picture. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

04-02-2005, 02:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
LoneWolf071 Be Free Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 834 OS: Windows XP, Linux	Just to be different... I hate paying $100 for Win O/S when linux is free, also, i'm a coder, so linux is the de facto for that... __________________ Suicide Command in Linux : rm -rf / ;) AIM:TheLoneWolf071@aim.com--If You Need Help, Don't Hesitate...