Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE)

GreatEmerald · 01-13-2009, 05:17 AM

First of all, sorry if this is in the wrong place, as it relates to Linux, Windows and BIOS at the same time. But as I'm on Linux now, I've posted it here.

Now my problem is fairly complex. I first installed OpenSUSE 10.2 on this PC, and it went through with no problems. Then I installed Windows XP x64, again with no problems, other than the usual overwriting of GRUB. Google helped me out and I managed to reinstall GRUB with options to boot both systems.

After that, I installed OpenSUSE 11.0 and recently OpenSUSE 11.1 (x86_64). A few minor problems during installs, but nothing critical. And then, a month ago, I thought of performing maintenance tasks for Windows. Defragmenter and Disk Cleanup went well, I scheduled CheckDisk for the next boot... And there was no next boot. The PC didn't start, even to BIOS. This doesn't relate with software, however - Defrag and Cleanup can't do any harm. So, the PC was sent to repair. Techs there swept the dust and nothing else, and the system started for them. It went back here, and it started for me as well (not sure if that was the dust's fault or if the PC was connected to a power splitter that was connected to another power splitter).

I tried to boot Windows then, and it booted, completed CheckDisk, but then... It started without recognising any input devices! As the installation was fairly old and Windows Update for some reason didn't work, I decided to reinstall it. The Setup ran correctly, all partitioning reported success, copying was fine, it said it was about to restart, restarted... And booted the DOS-like setup again! I rebooted again and also took the CD out of the reader, and the PC booted only to a message... "Invalid partition table". After trying a lot of things without any success (like repairing the boot loader from the openSUSE DVD - it reported success but nothing changed and the next time it again indicated problems), I installed openSUSE again to a small partition. Good thing it didn't require rebooting. So I managed to recover my Linux installation for one boot. After googling, I decided to try and install Windows again. And surprise - all of a sudden it decided to install and reboot normally. However, I didn't have an option to boot to Linux, and the internet drivers of WinXP were faulty enough not to let me download the Service Pack 2. The only way I could get it was to boot to Linux again. Tried repairing the boot loader again - and again a false success. Even worse, Windows didn't boot either... However, now the DVD repair option "boot an installed Linux system" worked - and works until now.

I tried installing Windows again - nothing. Boots into the CD again. That's the current situation - I can use the repair option to boot Linux, and Windows simply won't boot. Gives me an "Invalid Partition Table" error. But CFDISK reports that it's all good. Here's the Partition Table it gives me:

Code:

Partition Table for /dev/sda

         ---Starting----      ----Ending-----    Start     Number of
 # Flags Head Sect  Cyl   ID  Head Sect  Cyl     Sector    Sectors
-- ----- ---- ---- ----- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----------- -----------
 1  0x80    0    2     0 0x07  254   63 16472           1   264638744
 2  0x80    0    1 16971 0x0F  254   63 38912   272639115   352498230
 3  0x00    0    0     0 0x00    0    0     0           0           0
 4  0x00    0    0     0 0x00    0    0     0           0           0
 5  0x00    1    1 16971 0x82  254   63 17232          63     4208967
 6  0x00    1    1 17233 0x83  254   63 19810          63    41415507
 7  0x00    1    1 19811 0x83    0   63 25555          63    92277360
 8  0x00    2    1 25555 0x0C  254   63 38912          63   214596144

And the File System table:

Code:

Partition Table for /dev/sda

               First       Last
 # Type       Sector      Sector   Offset    Length   Filesystem Type (ID) Flag
-- ------- ----------- ----------- ------ ----------- -------------------- ----
 1 Primary           0   264638744      1#  264638745 HPFS/NTFS (07)       Boot
   Pri/Log   264638745   272639114      0     8000370 Free Space           None
 2 Primary   272639115   625137344      0   352498230 W95 Ext'd (LBA) (0F) Boot
 5 Logical   272639115   276848144     63     4209030 Linux swap / So (82) None
 6 Logical   276848145   318263714     63    41415570*Linux (83)           None
 7 Logical   318263715   410541137*    63    92277423*Linux (83)           None
 8 Logical   410541138*  625137344     63   214596207*W95 FAT32 (LBA) (0C) None

Here's the CFDISK GUI:

Code:

cfdisk (util-linux-ng 2.14.1)

                                                                                 Disk Drive: /dev/sda
                                                                          Size: 320072933376 bytes, 320.0 GB
                                                                Heads: 255   Sectors per Track: 63   Cylinders: 38913

         Name                       Flags                     Part Type               FS Type                              [Label]                          Size (MB)
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
         sda1                       Boot, NC                   Primary                NTFS                                 [E^D)E^Df^A^E]                   135495,04
                                                               Pri/Log                Free Space                                                              4096,19
         sda5                                                  Logical                Linux swap / Solaris                                                    2155,03
         sda6                                                  Logical                Linux ext3                                                             21204,78
         sda7                                                  Logical                Linux ext3                                                             47246,05                *
         sda8                                                  Logical                W95 FAT32 (LBA)                                                       109873,26                *

GRUB TAB list says this:

Code:

grub> geometry (hd0,
 Possible partitions are:
   Partition num: 0,  Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7
   Partition num: 4,  Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x82
   Partition num: 5,  Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
   Partition num: 6,  Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
   Partition num: 7,  Filesystem type is fat, partition type 0xc

Can anyone give me a hint about what to do now? I'm quite stuck without being able to boot Windows and with Linux booting only after like 10 minutes...

**wmorri** · 01-13-2009, 05:37 AM

Hi,

I have a couple of question to start off with. Why do you have two ext3 linux partitions? Is one for root and the other for home file systems? What is:

Code:

 2 Primary   272639115   625137344      0   352498230 W95 Ext'd (LBA) (0F) Boot
and
8 Logical   410541138*  625137344     63   214596207*W95 FAT32 (LBA) (0C) None

Cheers!

GreatEmerald · 01-13-2009, 05:54 AM

Yes, one is for /, and the other is for /home.
As for what is 2 Primary, I have no idea, and as you can see, CFDISK doesn't show it in the GUI. And the 8 Logical drive is my storage between systems partition, FAT32. That's where I keep my backups.

**wmorri** · 01-13-2009, 07:49 AM

Hi,

Why are you boot partitions soo big? They really don't need to be that large. Also, what are you doing with the free space that is on your hdd? Have you just thought about including that into one of the partitions.

Just some thoughts so that I can figure out what is what.

Cheers!

GreatEmerald · 01-13-2009, 01:51 PM

They aren't all that big. I just don't need smaller ones, what would I do with them? Already Windows has all drive letters used to M (because of the card reader), and remember that it doesn't normally detect Linux partitions...
The free space is in case of emergency, just like the last time - it would be enough to create another minimal Linux partition that I could boot from, in case I couldn't boot any at all.

**wmorri** · 01-13-2009, 02:03 PM

Hi,

Ok I was just curious. So let me see if I can get what your problem was from the first post. You are having problems with windows not letting you boot up. Have you tried to do a repair on your windows install.

Here is the easiest way that I know how to do it:

Quote:

Boot from the windows XP CD, press the "R" key in the setup in order to start the restoration console. Select your windows XP installation from the list, and enter the administrator password.
Enter the command: "FIXMBR" (without the quotes) at the input prompt and confirm the next question with a "Y" (without the quotes). Use exit to restore the computer.

Let me know if that works then we can work on getting GRUB to work again.

Cheers!

GreatEmerald · 01-13-2009, 03:00 PM

I think I've tried that (also tried FIXBOOT), but if I remember correctly, nothing happened. I could try it now as well, but as I don't have the administrator password (the Windows partition won't boot to the graphical mode and thus won't ask for a password), I might not be able to use the console. I also tried restoring MBR from the Linux CD, and it really does nothing.
I could also give you a screenshot of the official openSUSE partitioner, if it gives you any more information.
Hey, it seems that this tool actually sees the partition #2... It's the Extended partition. But it's marked as Bootable and Primary, and I don't think Windows would like that?

Here are the screenshots:

EDIT: Hey, I've got another idea... If my storage drive is on the extended partition, then why the hell is the NTFS out of the extended partition?

Rome5 · 01-13-2009, 03:35 PM

Code:

1  0x80    0    2     0 0x07  254   63 16472           1   264638744
2  0x80    0    1 16971 0x0F  254   63 38912   272639115   352498230

Having two partitions flagged 0x80 (active) generally doesn't sit well with the mbr as it's looking for just one. Probably the reason for the "invalid partition table" error you're getting. Wmorri's suggestion to fix the mbr may work if you clear the active flag off the extended partition (sda2) beforehand. You could also try reinstalling grub and making sure that it is actually writing to the mbr and not some other location (ebr, perhaps). You are wanting to use grub as your bootloader, correct?

Have you been installing OpenSUSE on logical partitions?

GreatEmerald · 01-13-2009, 04:07 PM

Yea, that's what I meant by saying "But it's marked as Bootable and Primary, and I don't think Windows would like that". If NTFS was logical, then possibly everything would be fine? How do I make it so it would be logical (as I see, there are gaps, but how to tell the table to fill them?) Two bootable partitions also aren't good according to CFDISK.

And yes, I installed it on Logical partitions. What others are there, and what's the difference then?

EDIT: Ah, Wikipedia has info on that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_pa...artition_types
So it seems I need at least one primary partition, up to three + 1 extended or 1 + 3 extended, but what's the actual difference and what's the best setup? Also, those empty gaps look not quite right in the table.

EDIT2: This page suggests this: use a small primary /boot partition for GRUB only, and leave anything else in logicals. Sounds... logical, but still, is that a good idea and how to set up such partition? And, more importantly, how to move partitions in spaces? And also, I have a bad feeling that Windows wouldn't understand such way of booting, although who knows, if GRUB can understand it, Windows don't need to. But then another question rises - how to make GRUB boot a Windows partition? Earlier openSUSE did that automatically on detection of a /windows/C mounted partition, but now as it's broken, there's no telling about how it was done...

Rome5 · 01-13-2009, 05:33 PM

1. A drive can only have four primary partitions --you got that. Only one of those primary partitions can be an extended partition --not three. Extended partitions are primary and are included in the mbr (master boot record) as a primary. The difference there is that extended partitions can be divided up into additional partitions known as 'logical' partitions. Those partitions are included not in the mbr, but the ebr (extended boot record). Basically, an extended partition is like a hard drive within a hard drive.

2. Both Linux and Windows will run off a logical partition. The only difference is that for Windows to do so, the boot files must be located on a primary partition. Linux doesn't require that, so your setup in that regard was fine. Grub can find an operating system on a logical partition, a separate drive, or even from USB. All it needs is for you to point it there.

3. Creating a separate partition for /boot is a good idea. Separating grub from the rest of the Linux system means if Linux crashes and the partition is lost, you'll still have a way to boot Windows without having to use an install CD or fix the mbr.

Possible partition scheme for your system:

Code:

primary | sda1       Windows
primary | sda2       /boot
primary | sda3       /
--sda4--extended partition--
logical | sda5       /home
logical | sda6       swap
logical | sda7       backup

If you move that free space to the end, you can always expand things later.

4. You can remove the boot/active flag with fdisk using a livecd. You can also setup grub using the live cd. Both from the terminal. If you're going to cleanup your hard drive, I would wait to do either until the rest is sorted out. If you don't plan on it, nevermind that.

GreatEmerald · 01-14-2009, 07:26 AM

Hmm, why can't you have more than one extended partition? I can imagine why you can't have more than one active partition, but why the limitation on extended ones?
As for the scheme, why would I want to have / on a primary? That would also mean formatting, which I'm not very fond of. Also, how to move that free space? And is there a way to order those partitions without formatting?

Rome5 · 01-15-2009, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatEmerald

Yea, that's what I meant by saying "But it's marked as Bootable and Primary, and I don't think Windows would like that". If NTFS was logical, then possibly everything would be fine? How do I make it so it would be logical (as I see, there are gaps, but how to tell the table to fill them?) Two bootable partitions also aren't good according to CFDISK.

The problem is only the two bootable (active) partitions. Windows (NTFS) prefers to be on a primary drive and actually won't work from a logical drive unless it's boot files are on a primary. Same concept as creating a /boot partition for Linux --only for Windows and making sure it's on a primary. Your Windows install is fine so that's nothing to worry about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatEmerald

Hmm, why can't you have more than one extended partition? I can imagine why you can't have more than one active partition, but why the limitation on extended ones?
As for the scheme, why would I want to have / on a primary? That would also mean formatting, which I'm not very fond of. Also, how to move that free space? And is there a way to order those partitions without formatting?

The mbr (master boot record) is what limits the number of primary and extened partitions. With the number of available logical partitions, you really shouldn't need more than one extended. I believe the minumum of logical you can have (that will be supported) is 14. The max will depend on the operating system you're using and the drive type (IDE/SCSI).

The scheme was just an example. Personally I use all three primary and add an extended, but you don't have to. If GRUB is the bootloader in use, there are a few 'must' for it to work, but /boot location can be practically anywhere (logical, primary, separate drive, etc.).

The free space can be used and would probably work best if allocated to the extended partition. Then you create new logical partitions with it. That should also change the order as the free space seems to exist at the end of the disk. Removing sda3 and sda4 should bump the current partitions up. You can do that with GParted which may be included with SUSE (not sure), but you can install it with SUSE or download and burn the image to a CD. here's the link if you want to burn it

#NOTE: Once you get gparted up, take a snapshot so we can see the configuration and go from there. You'll also need to know how to configure grub manually before you actually make any changes to the disk.

GreatEmerald · 01-15-2009, 06:11 AM

Ah, that makes sense. However, how does the BIOS know how to boot GRUB, if GRUB is on an extended partition? And in your scheme, which one should be the active partition? /boot? Or /windows until you install it, and later on /boot?

As for GParted, why would I need it? First of all, I use KDE4, so for a Gnome application I would basically have to get the whole Gnome. Looks like QTParted is the same but for KDE:
http://qtparted.sourceforge.net/index.en.html
It even has RPM builds.

So far this is what I want to have in my partition table:

Code:

primary | sda1 | NTFS  | /windows/C (system)
primary | sda2 | EXT3  | /boot
extended| sda3 |==================================
logical | sda4 | EXT3  | /
logical | sda5 | EXT3  | /home
logical | sda6 | SWAP  |
logical | sda7 | FAT32 | /windows/I (storage)
logical | sda8 | NTFS  | /windows/J (program files)

When I think about it, the storage partition (initially intended to be for shares between the system) is not very useful now. Windows can open and write to EXT3 partitions, and Linux can open and write to NTFS partitions. The only use of it now would be as a place for storing downloads, but even that way it isn't necessary. I can't get rid of it though, because that's where I have my backup stored. However, I could shrink it, restore the backup and then shrink it even more.

GreatEmerald · 01-15-2009, 07:26 AM

Hey, where's the Edit button?
Anyway, looks like GParted didn't actually need all gnome, or maybe it was already installed, so I have it (QTParted RPM links are all dead). Now, what snapshot have you been talking about?

Interestingly, GParted doesn't recognise the NTFS partition. Maybe BIOS doesn't do that as well. Can I partition it like that from here, or do I have to get that live CD? I see a key sign near the extended and all the logical drives, so I guess it's not possible... What does the flag "lba" mean? And how do I set up the /boot partition?

By the way, there's nothing that GParted does and YaST Partition Manager doesn't do, or at least I can't find anything, except for the NTFS formatting thing and flags. And YaST says it can't resize extended partitions...

GreatEmerald · 01-15-2009, 01:50 PM

Sorry for a triple post, but...
Is it any different if I want to have 2 windows and Linux on boot? Vista, XP and openSUSE? Never had Vista, so I might as well try it (and report how some programs work there as I'm helping one development team with debugging; that's also one more point why I need Linux). I've heard that Vista additionally needs something, but can't actually retell what. Also, don't Windows need to be on the first partition? Or any primary would do?

Now what should I do anyway? First of all, I guess I should:
1. Remove the boot flag from the extended partition
2. Delete the broken NTFS partition
3. Shrink the FAT partition
4. Create all needed NTFS partitions
5. Add the boot flag on the first one
6. Somehow get rid of those empty partition spaces - maybe creating the NTFS ones will get rid of them? YaST Partitioner by default adds new partitions to the old partitions' place, but that might not be a good idea when speaking about Windows partitions...
7. Install Windows XP
8. Finalize /boot and make it bootable, and the first partition non-bootable

Right? Or am I missing something? And what else for triple boot?

**wmorri** · 01-15-2009, 03:00 PM

Hi,

Your list makes sense. However I wouldn't bother getting vista. If I were you I would either wait till windows 7 comes out or get the beta.

I would recommend that you make all the partitions that you are going to need, then do your installing of OS's. That will make it a lot easier. Also, if you want you can install the Windows OS's first and get the NTFS partitions out of the way and that will save a lot of aggravation.

Cheers!

GreatEmerald · 01-16-2009, 06:00 AM

Hmm, Windows 7 makes sense all right... Might try it, will be even more interesting for the debugging team as there no one has Win7. I wonder if both OSs can use the same partition for program files... Guess they can, and in the worst case I can install things in different folders.
And yes, dealing with partitions is of course is a primary work that needs to be done, and OSs are secondary. Though getting good advice is the most important part - I wouldn't like messing it so much that even Linux wouldn't boot :) I also should clean up the FAT drive, a lot of old never used stuff that takes space there...
Cleaned a few GB, now I can get a pretty nice 20GB partition after shrinking FAT one and put Win7 there. Anything to have in mind for triple boots? And how do you set up /boot? And what to use to tell the partitioner that I want a primary, not logical, partition?

GreatEmerald · 01-17-2009, 03:12 AM

Any replies? And where did Rome disappear?
So how do I make the /boot partition? How big should it be?

**wmorri** · 01-17-2009, 09:08 AM

Relax Emerald. We all have lives outside of the forum, so we can't always be right on your posts.

The way that you make a root partition is when you install your linux distro, you will want to set up the partitions manually. As for the size of your root partition, how much space are you planning to use for linux that will help us decide.

Cheers!

GreatEmerald · 01-17-2009, 11:13 AM

Yea, I understand, but you see, having only Linux and an error "invalid partition table" isn't the state I want to be in :)
Anyway, after some googling, I've almost completed my plan. I'm now writing from my WinXP. My /boot is 100MB size (a lot of it is free though), set up GRUB there with root and setup, set that partition as mounted as /boot (though I guess I need to delete the actual /boot first, or it won't mount) and now the only thing I want to know is how to get to that partition. Logically setting it as an aactive partition should do, so I'll try that. But then I'll also need to get it to boot Windows... Usually the openSUSE Boot Loader Config updates automatically though, once it sees anything mounted on /windows/*, but this time it might be different, as it's already configured. We'll see.

01-13-2009, 05:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) First of all, sorry if this is in the wrong place, as it relates to Linux, Windows and BIOS at the same time. But as I'm on Linux now, I've posted it here. Now my problem is fairly complex. I first installed OpenSUSE 10.2 on this PC, and it went through with no problems. Then I installed Windows XP x64, again with no problems, other than the usual overwriting of GRUB. Google helped me out and I managed to reinstall GRUB with options to boot both systems. After that, I installed OpenSUSE 11.0 and recently OpenSUSE 11.1 (x86_64). A few minor problems during installs, but nothing critical. And then, a month ago, I thought of performing maintenance tasks for Windows. Defragmenter and Disk Cleanup went well, I scheduled CheckDisk for the next boot... And there was no next boot. The PC didn't start, even to BIOS. This doesn't relate with software, however - Defrag and Cleanup can't do any harm. So, the PC was sent to repair. Techs there swept the dust and nothing else, and the system started for them. It went back here, and it started for me as well (not sure if that was the dust's fault or if the PC was connected to a power splitter that was connected to another power splitter). I tried to boot Windows then, and it booted, completed CheckDisk, but then... It started without recognising any input devices! As the installation was fairly old and Windows Update for some reason didn't work, I decided to reinstall it. The Setup ran correctly, all partitioning reported success, copying was fine, it said it was about to restart, restarted... And booted the DOS-like setup again! I rebooted again and also took the CD out of the reader, and the PC booted only to a message... "Invalid partition table". After trying a lot of things without any success (like repairing the boot loader from the openSUSE DVD - it reported success but nothing changed and the next time it again indicated problems), I installed openSUSE again to a small partition. Good thing it didn't require rebooting. So I managed to recover my Linux installation for one boot. After googling, I decided to try and install Windows again. And surprise - all of a sudden it decided to install and reboot normally. However, I didn't have an option to boot to Linux, and the internet drivers of WinXP were faulty enough not to let me download the Service Pack 2. The only way I could get it was to boot to Linux again. Tried repairing the boot loader again - and again a false success. Even worse, Windows didn't boot either... However, now the DVD repair option "boot an installed Linux system" worked - and works until now. I tried installing Windows again - nothing. Boots into the CD again. That's the current situation - I can use the repair option to boot Linux, and Windows simply won't boot. Gives me an "Invalid Partition Table" error. But CFDISK reports that it's all good. Here's the Partition Table it gives me: Code: Partition Table for /dev/sda ---Starting---- ----Ending----- Start Number of # Flags Head Sect Cyl ID Head Sect Cyl Sector Sectors -- ----- ---- ---- ----- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----------- ----------- 1 0x80 0 2 0 0x07 254 63 16472 1 264638744 2 0x80 0 1 16971 0x0F 254 63 38912 272639115 352498230 3 0x00 0 0 0 0x00 0 0 0 0 0 4 0x00 0 0 0 0x00 0 0 0 0 0 5 0x00 1 1 16971 0x82 254 63 17232 63 4208967 6 0x00 1 1 17233 0x83 254 63 19810 63 41415507 7 0x00 1 1 19811 0x83 0 63 25555 63 92277360 8 0x00 2 1 25555 0x0C 254 63 38912 63 214596144 And the File System table: Code: Partition Table for /dev/sda First Last # Type Sector Sector Offset Length Filesystem Type (ID) Flag -- ------- ----------- ----------- ------ ----------- -------------------- ---- 1 Primary 0 264638744 1# 264638745 HPFS/NTFS (07) Boot Pri/Log 264638745 272639114 0 8000370 Free Space None 2 Primary 272639115 625137344 0 352498230 W95 Ext'd (LBA) (0F) Boot 5 Logical 272639115 276848144 63 4209030 Linux swap / So (82) None 6 Logical 276848145 318263714 63 41415570Linux (83) None 7 Logical 318263715 410541137 63 92277423Linux (83) None 8 Logical 410541138 625137344 63 214596207W95 FAT32 (LBA) (0C) None Here's the CFDISK GUI: Code: cfdisk (util-linux-ng 2.14.1) Disk Drive: /dev/sda Size: 320072933376 bytes, 320.0 GB Heads: 255 Sectors per Track: 63 Cylinders: 38913 Name Flags Part Type FS Type [Label] Size (MB) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ sda1 Boot, NC Primary NTFS [E^D)E^Df^A^E] 135495,04 Pri/Log Free Space 4096,19 sda5 Logical Linux swap / Solaris 2155,03 sda6 Logical Linux ext3 21204,78 sda7 Logical Linux ext3 47246,05 sda8 Logical W95 FAT32 (LBA) 109873,26 * GRUB TAB list says this: Code: grub> geometry (hd0, Possible partitions are: Partition num: 0, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7 Partition num: 4, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x82 Partition num: 5, Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83 Partition num: 6, Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83 Partition num: 7, Filesystem type is fat, partition type 0xc Can anyone give me a hint about what to do now? I'm quite stuck without being able to boot Windows and with Linux booting only after like 10 minutes...

01-13-2009, 05:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
wmorri Moderator/Fedora Amb. Join Date: May 2008 Location: /pm/etc Posts: 2,846 OS: Window 7/Fedora 10 My System	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Hi, I have a couple of question to start off with. Why do you have two ext3 linux partitions? Is one for root and the other for home file systems? What is: Code: 2 Primary 272639115 625137344 0 352498230 W95 Ext'd (LBA) (0F) Boot and 8 Logical 410541138* 625137344 63 214596207W95 FAT32 (LBA) (0C) None Cheers! __________________ Linux Forever!*

01-13-2009, 05:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Yes, one is for /, and the other is for /home. As for what is 2 Primary, I have no idea, and as you can see, CFDISK doesn't show it in the GUI. And the 8 Logical drive is my storage between systems partition, FAT32. That's where I keep my backups.

01-13-2009, 07:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
wmorri Moderator/Fedora Amb. Join Date: May 2008 Location: /pm/etc Posts: 2,846 OS: Window 7/Fedora 10 My System	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Hi, Why are you boot partitions soo big? They really don't need to be that large. Also, what are you doing with the free space that is on your hdd? Have you just thought about including that into one of the partitions. Just some thoughts so that I can figure out what is what. Cheers! __________________ Linux Forever!

01-13-2009, 01:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) They aren't all that big. I just don't need smaller ones, what would I do with them? Already Windows has all drive letters used to M (because of the card reader), and remember that it doesn't normally detect Linux partitions... The free space is in case of emergency, just like the last time - it would be enough to create another minimal Linux partition that I could boot from, in case I couldn't boot any at all.

01-13-2009, 03:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) I think I've tried that (also tried FIXBOOT), but if I remember correctly, nothing happened. I could try it now as well, but as I don't have the administrator password (the Windows partition won't boot to the graphical mode and thus won't ask for a password), I might not be able to use the console. I also tried restoring MBR from the Linux CD, and it really does nothing. I could also give you a screenshot of the official openSUSE partitioner, if it gives you any more information. Hey, it seems that this tool actually sees the partition #2... It's the Extended partition. But it's marked as Bootable and Primary, and I don't think Windows would like that? Here are the screenshots: EDIT: Hey, I've got another idea... If my storage drive is on the extended partition, then why the hell is the NTFS out of the extended partition? Last edited by GreatEmerald; 01-13-2009 at 03:04 PM.

01-13-2009, 03:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
Rome5 Alternative Computing Team Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Denver.CO Posts: 311 OS: Arch linux	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Code: 1 0x80 0 2 0 0x07 254 63 16472 1 264638744 2 0x80 0 1 16971 0x0F 254 63 38912 272639115 352498230 Having two partitions flagged 0x80 (active) generally doesn't sit well with the mbr as it's looking for just one. Probably the reason for the "invalid partition table" error you're getting. Wmorri's suggestion to fix the mbr may work if you clear the active flag off the extended partition (sda2) beforehand. You could also try reinstalling grub and making sure that it is actually writing to the mbr and not some other location (ebr, perhaps). You are wanting to use grub as your bootloader, correct? Have you been installing OpenSUSE on logical partitions?

01-13-2009, 04:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Yea, that's what I meant by saying "But it's marked as Bootable and Primary, and I don't think Windows would like that". If NTFS was logical, then possibly everything would be fine? How do I make it so it would be logical (as I see, there are gaps, but how to tell the table to fill them?) Two bootable partitions also aren't good according to CFDISK. And yes, I installed it on Logical partitions. What others are there, and what's the difference then? EDIT: Ah, Wikipedia has info on that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_pa...artition_types So it seems I need at least one primary partition, up to three + 1 extended or 1 + 3 extended, but what's the actual difference and what's the best setup? Also, those empty gaps look not quite right in the table. EDIT2: This page suggests this: use a small primary /boot partition for GRUB only, and leave anything else in logicals. Sounds... logical, but still, is that a good idea and how to set up such partition? And, more importantly, how to move partitions in spaces? And also, I have a bad feeling that Windows wouldn't understand such way of booting, although who knows, if GRUB can understand it, Windows don't need to. But then another question rises - how to make GRUB boot a Windows partition? Earlier openSUSE did that automatically on detection of a /windows/C mounted partition, but now as it's broken, there's no telling about how it was done... Last edited by GreatEmerald; 01-13-2009 at 04:28 PM.

01-13-2009, 05:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
Rome5 Alternative Computing Team Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Denver.CO Posts: 311 OS: Arch linux	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) 1. A drive can only have four primary partitions --you got that. Only one of those primary partitions can be an extended partition --not three. Extended partitions are primary and are included in the mbr (master boot record) as a primary. The difference there is that extended partitions can be divided up into additional partitions known as 'logical' partitions. Those partitions are included not in the mbr, but the ebr (extended boot record). Basically, an extended partition is like a hard drive within a hard drive. 2. Both Linux and Windows will run off a logical partition. The only difference is that for Windows to do so, the boot files must be located on a primary partition. Linux doesn't require that, so your setup in that regard was fine. Grub can find an operating system on a logical partition, a separate drive, or even from USB. All it needs is for you to point it there. 3. Creating a separate partition for /boot is a good idea. Separating grub from the rest of the Linux system means if Linux crashes and the partition is lost, you'll still have a way to boot Windows without having to use an install CD or fix the mbr. Possible partition scheme for your system: Code: primary \| sda1 Windows primary \| sda2 /boot primary \| sda3 / --sda4--extended partition-- logical \| sda5 /home logical \| sda6 swap logical \| sda7 backup If you move that free space to the end, you can always expand things later. 4. You can remove the boot/active flag with fdisk using a livecd. You can also setup grub using the live cd. Both from the terminal. If you're going to cleanup your hard drive, I would wait to do either until the rest is sorted out. If you don't plan on it, nevermind that. Last edited by Rome5; 01-13-2009 at 05:39 PM.

01-14-2009, 07:26 AM	#11 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Hmm, why can't you have more than one extended partition? I can imagine why you can't have more than one active partition, but why the limitation on extended ones? As for the scheme, why would I want to have / on a primary? That would also mean formatting, which I'm not very fond of. Also, how to move that free space? And is there a way to order those partitions without formatting?

01-15-2009, 06:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Ah, that makes sense. However, how does the BIOS know how to boot GRUB, if GRUB is on an extended partition? And in your scheme, which one should be the active partition? /boot? Or /windows until you install it, and later on /boot? As for GParted, why would I need it? First of all, I use KDE4, so for a Gnome application I would basically have to get the whole Gnome. Looks like QTParted is the same but for KDE: http://qtparted.sourceforge.net/index.en.html It even has RPM builds. So far this is what I want to have in my partition table: Code: primary \| sda1 \| NTFS \| /windows/C (system) primary \| sda2 \| EXT3 \| /boot extended\| sda3 \|================================== logical \| sda4 \| EXT3 \| / logical \| sda5 \| EXT3 \| /home logical \| sda6 \| SWAP \| logical \| sda7 \| FAT32 \| /windows/I (storage) logical \| sda8 \| NTFS \| /windows/J (program files) When I think about it, the storage partition (initially intended to be for shares between the system) is not very useful now. Windows can open and write to EXT3 partitions, and Linux can open and write to NTFS partitions. The only use of it now would be as a place for storing downloads, but even that way it isn't necessary. I can't get rid of it though, because that's where I have my backup stored. However, I could shrink it, restore the backup and then shrink it even more.

01-15-2009, 07:26 AM	#14 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Hey, where's the Edit button? Anyway, looks like GParted didn't actually need all gnome, or maybe it was already installed, so I have it (QTParted RPM links are all dead). Now, what snapshot have you been talking about? Interestingly, GParted doesn't recognise the NTFS partition. Maybe BIOS doesn't do that as well. Can I partition it like that from here, or do I have to get that live CD? I see a key sign near the extended and all the logical drives, so I guess it's not possible... What does the flag "lba" mean? And how do I set up the /boot partition? By the way, there's nothing that GParted does and YaST Partition Manager doesn't do, or at least I can't find anything, except for the NTFS formatting thing and flags. And YaST says it can't resize extended partitions... Last edited by GreatEmerald; 01-15-2009 at 07:42 AM.

01-15-2009, 01:50 PM	#15 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Sorry for a triple post, but... Is it any different if I want to have 2 windows and Linux on boot? Vista, XP and openSUSE? Never had Vista, so I might as well try it (and report how some programs work there as I'm helping one development team with debugging; that's also one more point why I need Linux). I've heard that Vista additionally needs something, but can't actually retell what. Also, don't Windows need to be on the first partition? Or any primary would do? Now what should I do anyway? First of all, I guess I should: 1. Remove the boot flag from the extended partition 2. Delete the broken NTFS partition 3. Shrink the FAT partition 4. Create all needed NTFS partitions 5. Add the boot flag on the first one 6. Somehow get rid of those empty partition spaces - maybe creating the NTFS ones will get rid of them? YaST Partitioner by default adds new partitions to the old partitions' place, but that might not be a good idea when speaking about Windows partitions... 7. Install Windows XP 8. Finalize /boot and make it bootable, and the first partition non-bootable Right? Or am I missing something? And what else for triple boot?

01-15-2009, 03:00 PM	#16 (permalink)
wmorri Moderator/Fedora Amb. Join Date: May 2008 Location: /pm/etc Posts: 2,846 OS: Window 7/Fedora 10 My System	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Hi, Your list makes sense. However I wouldn't bother getting vista. If I were you I would either wait till windows 7 comes out or get the beta. I would recommend that you make all the partitions that you are going to need, then do your installing of OS's. That will make it a lot easier. Also, if you want you can install the Windows OS's first and get the NTFS partitions out of the way and that will save a lot of aggravation. Cheers! __________________ Linux Forever!

01-16-2009, 06:00 AM	#17 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Hmm, Windows 7 makes sense all right... Might try it, will be even more interesting for the debugging team as there no one has Win7. I wonder if both OSs can use the same partition for program files... Guess they can, and in the worst case I can install things in different folders. And yes, dealing with partitions is of course is a primary work that needs to be done, and OSs are secondary. Though getting good advice is the most important part - I wouldn't like messing it so much that even Linux wouldn't boot :) I also should clean up the FAT drive, a lot of old never used stuff that takes space there... Cleaned a few GB, now I can get a pretty nice 20GB partition after shrinking FAT one and put Win7 there. Anything to have in mind for triple boots? And how do you set up /boot? And what to use to tell the partitioner that I want a primary, not logical, partition?

01-17-2009, 03:12 AM	#18 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Any replies? And where did Rome disappear? So how do I make the /boot partition? How big should it be?

01-17-2009, 09:08 AM	#19 (permalink)
wmorri Moderator/Fedora Amb. Join Date: May 2008 Location: /pm/etc Posts: 2,846 OS: Window 7/Fedora 10 My System	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Relax Emerald. We all have lives outside of the forum, so we can't always be right on your posts. The way that you make a root partition is when you install your linux distro, you will want to set up the partitions manually. As for the size of your root partition, how much space are you planning to use for linux that will help us decide. Cheers! __________________ Linux Forever!

01-17-2009, 11:13 AM	#20 (permalink)
GreatEmerald Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 OS: openSUSE 11.1 x86_64, WinXP x64 SP2	Re: Another dual boot issue (WinXP and openSUSE) Yea, I understand, but you see, having only Linux and an error "invalid partition table" isn't the state I want to be in :) Anyway, after some googling, I've almost completed my plan. I'm now writing from my WinXP. My /boot is 100MB size (a lot of it is free though), set up GRUB there with root and setup, set that partition as mounted as /boot (though I guess I need to delete the actual /boot first, or it won't mount) and now the only thing I want to know is how to get to that partition. Logically setting it as an aactive partition should do, so I'll try that. But then I'll also need to get it to boot Windows... Usually the openSUSE Boot Loader Config updates automatically though, once it sees anything mounted on /windows/*, but this time it might be different, as it's already configured. We'll see.